Exclusive Q&A with Eric Stoop , Co-founder of Infinileads

Exclusive Q&A with Eric Stoop , Co-founder of Infinileads

 

Let’s begin with something about yourself. Our readers love to learn more about top technocrats and their vision. How do you come into the gaming industry? What’s the backdrop?

E.S.: I got into the gaming industry through poker like many other people. I was there when it boomed back in 2004, when a poker set back in 2005 was voted the Christmas gift of the year in Sweden and “everyone” was making money and thought it would last forever. That was the good old days and I can really miss it sometimes.  During that time I meet my future wife who was one of the first employees at the gaming operator called Maria Bingo which was acquired by Unibet(Kindred) in 2008. I got a bit involved with her work and it was a very different time back then. I particularly remember in the beginning of Maria Bingo, management had forgotten that players can win money and want to withdraw but they only had support for deposits in the system.  It took some time to add withdrawal support and players were finally happy, but it pretty much speaks for how businesses were operated back in 2005.

After Maria was acquired, I started to work with my wife at a new bingo operator called Mamamia Bingo. The plan was to also launch a poker skin targeting the Latam market and I would be responsible for managing that one. It was also quite interesting back then because I usually refer to myself as a “street kid” no education after high school. The threshold for receiving a job in the gaming industry back in 2008 was very low. So, I had a discussion with the owner, and he said, “I heard you play poker”. “Yes, that is correct”. “Great you will be the manager of our poker skin”.
We quickly noticed that the Latam market was not ready.  Mainly from a payment service provider perspective because the internet penetration was there. We had very big volumes playing our freeroll poker tournaments, but it was extremely hard to convert the players to depositing customers.

Through poker I met Jan, my future partner in SEO affiliation, who was doing rakeback affiliation back then.

During this period, I noticed how lucrative the poker affiliation was in terms of margins and no need for upfront investments if working with pure rakeback affiliation and “under the table” deals. So, the poker skin was closed, and I started to be more involved with the bingo which was the core focus of the company. On the side I started to build up a base of poker players which I was in contact with on MSN messenger. I managed to build a huge base in France and business was going quite well. I teamed up with Jan and we started to leverage on our existing network of deals. This was a very hectic time. Combination of day to day work with the bingo operator as well as chatting with 500+ players and being personal on MSN and working on retention and follow up. My wife also gave birth to our first child during this period and I working like a maniac. Starting at 08.00, coming home at 19.00, my wife had prepared dinner, eating it while reading a Donald Duck comic just to clear my mind. Then back to work to 01.00-02.00. 

 Looking back at it, I worked too much during the following 2-3 years and I’m surprised to this day that my wife did not divorce me.  So back in 2010, France regulated online gaming and that pretty much killed 80% of the revenues for the rakeback affiliation business. We decided that we wanted to try organic traffic through SEO as we saw the opportunity in beating existing competition with a high-quality product. We were also a bit tired of the constant communication requirement that followed with rakeback affiliation. We analysed Italy which was already regulated and from experience we knew that this market was huge, one of the biggest in Europa before the regulation but the channelization was low into the regulated environment but we expected it to improve significantly over time.  

We started in 2012 with our first site, we had no experience with SEO and Jan was the one responsible for the SEO part while I was the product and commercial guy. We made all the mistakes you could make, the project became a mess and was not successful. We learned a lot in practical though. At this point we didn’t know if we should continue our focus at our current day to day jobs.  Eventually we decided to give it another try. , We restarted with more experience and took in a 3rd partner, John, who had a broad skill set we lacked which was design/frontend/backend, targeting Italy again, targeting specific games which was popular with exact domain match URLs. Which quite quickly became successful and we launched so many sites, too many with regards to what you should be able to carry. We also entered other regulated markets like Belgium. I quit my day to day job when we started to see traction in revenues and traffic and at LAC 2016, I meet with Erik Bergman who was currently active in Catena Media and presented our business.

They were interested and the deal was closed as quick as 1 month later. After that we worked with Catena Media in an earnout for 2 years and later in 2019 we restarted with a new affiliation business. I am still married to my wife.   I tried to keep that history as short as possible and I left out a lot of details, but online gaming is pretty much the only thing I have focused on all my career. 

You have been there and done that – in terms of developing a successful affiliate company, which was acquired by Catena Media a few years back. When coming back and doing it again, what are the changes that you notice, especially in customer behaviour and marketing strategy?

E.S.: SEO strategies have changed a lot the last few years. SEO used to be a lot about self-owned private blog networks and link exchanges which isn’t being used in the same extent today.
Today’s SEO is involving towards a more general marketing strategy and focusses around high quality content, keeping that content up to date, converting the content into different media and gaining authority by having authoritative writers posting on your site.

Could you describe more about your present business and its focus areas?

E.S.:Our core product is free play slot machines which was something we focused on before. Working with strictly regulated operators where applicable and trying to offer players a huge library of slot machines with an ultra-fast and user-friendly experience.

Currently we target:

The regulated Spanish and Latam market through https://www.slotjava.es
The regulated Italian market through https://www.nuovicasino.it/ and https://www.slotjava.it
The regulated Portuguese market through https://www.onlinecasinosportugal.pt

You operate both in Spanish, Portuguese and Italian markets in Europe and Latin America. How does the business strategy vary across countries and across continents?

E.S.: Latin America is still a very immature marked. You would think that a lot has happened since we operated a poker skin back in 2008 but everything is still very dependent on payments and the possibility for users to deposit money. First, you need to select operators that has focused on a specific country in Latin America with regards to payment methods. You can’t select an operator who says: “Our site is in Spanish and we target the entire Latin America” you need to establish which payment methods they have for each specific country otherwise you will see 0 conversion. The second thing is brick and mortar presence. The consensus by players/people in Latin America is to not trust online. It does not matter if it is casinos, ecommerce or another online based business. So, finding an online casino which also has brick and mortar presence will make the threshold for conversion lower. They usually have the option to fund your online account with cash within their physical venue.  This obviously differs per country, but we see that the development has been going quicker in geos like Chile and Peru. Higher internet and smartphone penetration and payment options available is likely the reason for this. It is a quite funny fact the Betsson brands biggest market in terms of traffic generated is Peru. Which is not so strange as they have been live there since the year 2000.

For Italy we focus a lot on building a brand. Most of the Italian population consumes from the aspect of brand strength, perception and awareness. So, for an affiliate portal it is important to build a brand that has strong values and can be associated with the culture of the Italian gaming industry. The average Italian player also loves to read high-quality content. We were very surprised when we used to track user behaviour on how our users consumed content in Italy and the detailed level they read about it on our sites.

Portugal was quite recently regulated and have a very low channelization. Mainly due to high taxation with tax on handle for sport. So, in Portugal it is important for us to educate the players of the benefits of playing in a regulated environment and informing about the not so obvious risks of choosing an unregulated operator.

Gambling and betting regulations change across countries – even across states, for instance, in the USA. How do you see such varied and sometimes complication laws – as a hindrance for the growth of a budding gambling affiliate or as a real filter that separates a serious affiliate from the rest?

E.S.: The days when three friends could start a gambling affiliation project as a side-business is over. The compliance requirements are very time demanding and the initial financial investment needed to reach results has increased a lot. The affiliates making a living out of regulated markets is now almost only populated by the “real” and established businesses who can afford to deal with compliance. Regulation and compliance that follows will only increase going forward and you need to adapt your sites on market level, and we will see more mandatory affiliate licenses.

Could you name three major factors that play a big part in the success of an affiliate company? It would be great if you can elaborate on them too.

E.S.:I would mention three things.

1. Unique product which makes users engage. Simple comparison sites still work but I believe that you will need to contribute more user value going forward.
2. Established contact network in the gambling industry. This will help a lot in terms of getting links from relevant unique sources which becomes more and more important.
3. Commitment from founders and organisation. The main work tasks are very repetitive and boring. But it needs to get done in a good pace and small errors could have a huge ripple effect.

Finally, what do you foresee for the future of affiliate marketing? Technology disruption? Ultra-targeted, automated marketing? Or the same old wine in a new bottle? What’s your prediction?

E.S.: I expect the future to be all about a unique product, brand and delivering more value to the end user. I don’t believe that the standard comparison sites will exist in the same sense we see them today in 3-5 years. It also becomes harder and harder to sustain the same margins as Google floods the Google search results with more AdWords positions and make them look more like the organic results. That is applicable for the SEO marketing vertical. In terms of other verticals within lead generation I expect the targeting to become more of a creative game to be able to find good sources and ROI.…

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